Native American Flutes
Adventures with 'other' instruments...
That is super cool Salt. I couldn't find one that was Hupa or Wiyot, but this Yurok flute may have been similar to the ones my ancestors heard, since there was a lot of cultural overlap.
That is super cool Salt. I couldn't find one that was Hupa or Wiyot, but this Yurok flute may have been similar to the ones my ancestors heard, since there was a lot of cultural overlap.
I hadn't heard of the
"Aquila 11B red series" but the product description says "Nylgut made firstly elastic and then added with red copper powder in order to increase the density to about twice that of standard white Nylgut"
which I found really interesting. Id be curious to know whether they feel like metal or plastic to the touch.
Thanks for sharing salt, these are cool. To my sensibilities, different tribes had different flutes and "Native American flute" is just a general term for one style of flute that some tribes made, which has been adapted into a western instrument.. Obviously pre-colombian flutes were not in A440, so that makes most "native American flutes" I've seen "cultural appropriation." The flutes I've seen in tribal museums, as well as the Musical Instrument Museum were often visually and functionally very different from each other. If it were built traditionally, I would expect the name of a tribe and not just "native American."
And Irene, I really look forward to seeing that dulcimer!
That is interesting Steve. It seems pretty silly to me but this is America and we do love to sue. As I was trying to look into it more, it seems like the native American flute got loopholed into being included as an "American Indian craft" just due to its name, since the instrument was called such for quite a while before that law was written. Still silly to me though, that someone would see the descriptor "native American" and directly assume that it must have been made by a real one, let alone it happening so often they passed a law lol. The flute herself does not know or care whether she is native American or native American style. Either way that law is interesting.
Nate
I often use mandolin strings on my dulcimer, which are phosphor bronze. At my local music shop, they are only a dollar more than the pack of dulcimer strings but come with 2 of each gauge. They are basically the same gauge as dulcimer strings, and the extra 2 thickest strings can be tuned a fifth lower than the root note, so with one pack you could string up a 4 string dulcimer Dadd and a 3 string dulcimer AEa, or whatever tunings suit your VSL.
Nate
Steve, I believe "native American flute" just denotes the origin of the style of the flute, not that specific flute. To me it's a bit like saying you have to be French to build a French horn, English to build an English concertina, or Appalachian to build an Appalachian dulcimer.
Some people might actually agree with that last one
In general an instrument built for steel strings will have less volume and sustain when using nylon strings. This is because nylon strings are typically at a much lower tension, and dulcimers made for nylon strings are typically lighter, in order to be more responsive. The strings will eventually stop stretching and will keep their tune. If youre not happy with the tone you might be best off sticking to metal strings. I do like silver coated strings, as well as plain steel. I dont know much about nickel allergies and how careful you have to be, but I also used cobalt strings one time and gold coated strings another and found the tone nice for both.
Thanks a ton to both of you for the positive encouragement! So far I've been keeping the headstock tuner turned on while I practice scales, so I can adjust. Ive never been great at knowing if I'm in tune so this will be a big challenge for me.
Ken, I've become a bit of an instrument hoarder and I probably own more instruments than anyone could master in a lifetime, so I get what you mean. The fiddle is one that I feel more motivation for than other instruments so I finally bought myself a beginner model. I am hoping some stuff I learned on mandolin can transfer over
Nate
Haha I like that dusty. I must be a fast learner because it only took me about 30 seconds to be bad at it
Ive just started learning fiddle! It's the one instrument that Ive always wished I was really good at, if I could pick one. Guess it's finally time to get that ball rolling!
Nate
Shooter, I built a cigar box guitar tuned DAD before I built any dulcimers. To me a 3 string CBG is the same as a chromatic strumstick. Cigar box guitars led me to building dulcimers, and I still like building cigar box dulcimers a lot. It's all a lot of fun
PS I recommend that new mandolin players start with 1 string per course while learning the chords, then add in the second string once you have the shapes down. Those strings can really shred up your fingertips and limit the amount of time you can practice when you're first starting, which makes a lot of people burn out on Mando
Nate
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of pickups because of all the added fuss of having to bring an amp and make sure you have power supply, plus I'm not someone you can trust with cords around their feet lol.
That's why I make some of my dulcimers really thin, really large in volume, with metal cake pans, and with really heavy gauge strings. They're SUPER loud and can hold their ground against other instruments when played acoustically. In fact I have to play very gently when playing with other dulcimers or I will drown them out lol.
I have only seen one real resonator dulcimer and it was even louder than mine, so a dulcibro seems like the ticket if you want to be louder than the banjo. In general some dulcimers are much louder than others, and are better suited to playing alongside loud instruments.
Is it really normal for a dulcimer to have a very weak, drowned out sound?
I forgot to mention, you can find those built in pre-amps with tuners online for anywhere from 15-300$ depending on the quality. You'd have to cut a hole in the side of your merlin to install the display into, and youd have to cut a slot into your bridge under your saddle for the pickup to sit in. Nothing too complicated to do yourself, and definitely something you could get done by a pro if you wanted to. Just make sure you get a preamp small enough to fit in your instrument, perhaps a ukulele preamp.
I have built a dulcimer with a fishman preamp that I recycled from an acoustic guitar. It had an UST or basically a pickup under the bridge and had a built in metronome, tuner, and tone controls.
Personally I am not a big fan of how amplification changes the tone so much, however I'm also not a big fan of the hollow, plunking tone that strumsticks often have. I have tried one of those little piezos, and preferred that, because the original tone was mostly preserved. In my opinion, many strumsticks players are also guitar players who want a more gutsy, guitar like tone, and install pickups to achieve that.
When it comes to tuners built into amps, maybe this is just me, but I find their displays to be very unintuitive to use to tune. I have a headstock tuner but I mostly use an app on my phone. A modern smartphone has a very high quality microphone, typically better quality than you'll ever need for tuning, and also typically better than an actual tuner, plus the display is much bigger and has more details. The clip on can be handy in a group setting or anywhere noisy.
Nate
To give a specific example of how key and temperament affect notes on the dulcimer, if you had 3 dulcimers built to be tuned (EBE) and
one was "equal temperament"
one was "mean tone temperament"
one was "just intonated"
G# would be flatter on the "just intonated" dulcimer than it is on the equal temperament dulcimer
G# would be sharper on the "meantone" dulcimer than it would on the equal temperament dulcimer.
That is not a common tuning, but it is an example of one where G# is quite different for each temperament, since you mentioned G#.
I've always wondered why schools don't use penny whistles instead of recorders. They are cheaper and are based on a simpler counted-hole method of scales, like the dulcimer is. I've noticed a distinct similarity between dulcimers and p.whistles in terms of playing different modes- both are based upon the ionian mode, with aeolian being quite accessible as well. (ionian home on 3rd fret dulcimer, 3rd hole whistle) Both are easily played in the most common keys as well. P.whistles would certainly be much more portable and durable for kids to take for practicing at home.
Although the conversation happened a couple of years ago, I found the idea of replacing recorders with dulcimers interesting. I am finding that kids are aging with less fine motor skills. More students struggle even with the most simple recorder fingerings. I am looking at using dulcimers during my primary grades music instruction. As early as kindergarten, students will learn to count the frets (which correlates with the simple counting curriculum) while making music using the noter style. As they progress, they can learn to use fingering on the melody string to increase finger dexterity, and eventually chords. This would probably last through the second grade. At this point, then I can branch out to ukulele, recorders, guitars, etc. I will never replace recorder or ukulele, but the dulcimer will definitely prepare students for such making them invaluable in school music. Best part, kids will make music quickly and fall in love with it faster. I think I got the plan.
Haha, well while I'm definitely no expert in the standard behavior of woodworkers, but I do know that a lot of people have a grandfather who built a handful of dulcimers for friends and family, and when those get sold, it can be almost impossible to find info about them.
You do make a very good point. Dulcimers can come in different intonations (such as meantone or Just-intonated), or have a bridge setup for a tuning with a specific gauge of strings such as DAA, or AEA, so buying from an obscure luthier increases those risks.
After trying to dig a bit, I came across several woodworkers with the name Larry Wilson, but couldn't find anything specifically about dulcimers from any of them. Whoever he is, he doesn't seem to have much online presence. I think it's somewhat common for skilled woodworkers to build a couple of dulcimers for fun, which then end up in circulation with very little info about their builder. I wonder if this may be like that.
Okay backup plan. You are the minister of propaganda, all you have to do is comment under my songs that you enjoyed them. So far your service has been admirable!
Well then its settled, Robin. You are the enforcer! Your job is to bounce the undesirables. I'll leave it to you to determine which shins you want to kick, and the full brunt force of FANS OF NATE (which I think is just us) will descend on them!
I am guessing the satisfaction of restoring your instrument only added to the joy of playing it!
Welcome
-Nate
Of course Robin, though we might need some treasure first. Sadly, I think this may be one of those times where the real treasure is the friends we made along the way....
Do you want me to work you up a price quote for that job Nate?
I'm not saying you should convert the entire platform into a massive fansite dedicated to how cool I am, but......well actually that is exactly what I'm saying.
To be honest, I find the separation of Groups and Discussions kind of confusing. Im never really sure where I should be posting. I've also gotten confused a few times when I click on a group discussion from google search, and it doesnt show the replies because I'm not in the group. For non-members this is probably very confusing. For what it's worth I'm not great at navigating this site but I think it is very well put together considering just how much information is packed into this place!
Hey Dusty! I noticed that I was able to improve quickly at the test, probably because it used the same tone each time. I also went from 28-31 after retrying. I think your math is right that 1-64th corresponds to 1.5 cents. Not that it matters for me. Being able to tell one tone is a cent and a half higher than another would be much more helpful if I also knew which one is the correct tone. XD
A test to determine how well you can discern subtle differences in pitch. I always assumed that I had poor pitch perception, but apparently I can detect a 1-16th of a note difference reliably! If anyone else would like to take this test, I'd love to know what you score!
https://www.themusiclab.org/quizzes/td
Nate
On a serious note though, I am quite curious about what would compel someone to remove frets from the fingerboard...it strikes me that the frets are removed from the outer ends of the instrument. Is the dulcimer 'bowed' downward such that the bridge and nut are lower than the center of the fretboard? Maybe the frets were removed to prevent buzzing? If so, the repair might be a touch more complicated. Is the fretboard level for it's full length?
Haha I found the misunderstanding about 'missing frets' amusing. Surely you guys must be aware that a truly traditional dulcimer only has 3 frets to an octave. This was increased to 7 during an early surge in popularity known as the "vival" hundreds of years before the 1.5 and 6.5 were later also added during a period called the "re-vival."
My cat is very indifferent to the dulcimer, but gets very concerned when I play the harmonica and hates when I play the pennywhistle. More than anything, I think he doesnt like that my dulcimer occupies my lap when he wishes he did.
"Folk music is high-class music. There's a lotta low-class people singin' it. Matter of fact, most so-called folk singers don't even look like folk." -Abner Jay
When I'm making a long slide with my thumb, I often pluck the string partway through the slide. Sometimes at half the distance I'm sliding to, sometimes wherever it fits into the rhythm nicely, sometimes to emphasize a specific not along the way.
I dont know much, but from my experience, moving the noter across the frets as fast as possible makes the note noticeably more pronounced than moving it slower, when you are hitting each fret along the way. I think one technique tries to give the intermittent slide where each fret along the way is heard as it slides into the next, while another technique tries to slide along the string without touching the frets for a more consistent sliding tone. I feel that denser noter material allows the sliding to be heard better. For example, a delicate touch passing over the frets using an actual glass slide or ceramic slide seems to be the loudest for me. When pressing down to 'bump' each fret along the way, I prefer to use a dense piece of wood hitting each fret hard to excite the string. I also will sometimes pluck the string mid slide, or will lift off and hammer down with the noter to accent the note I'm ending on.
Hope this was useful
Nate
By my generation, popeye and similar cartoons didnt even play on boomerang. The full collection of betty boop, woody woodpecker, sailor mickey, wile e coyote, popeye, etc were DVDs at the dollar store.
Lol john it does in fact make you strong to the finish. I was told once that the decimal point was misplaced on a study about the iron content of spinach, thus it was considered a miracle food with 100x the iron it actually had. Personally, I like it with some ricotta, or in a buttered curry with some squash and chicken!